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楼主: 郭国汀

[思考] 马克思宗教观批判

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 楼主| 发表于 3/1/2011 15:36:47 | 显示全部楼层
    原帖由 人民思想家 于 2009-2-4 16:22 发表
    老在恶搞老马,是何意?剩余价值是谁发现的?资本主义,社会主义……是谁发明的词汇?
    宗教连尼采和康德都批判了,你还翻什么案,伟人政治家信宗教那是做戏!你懂不懂,我若是总统我也会赞美宗教,因为人民需要安慰 ...



汝被中共无神论毒害够严重以至成为宗教信仰盲,这是你的头脑中有那么多暴虐思想的根源.连进化论创始人达尔文同样不敢否认上帝的存在,而大科学家,哲学家,思想家相信上帝者更是大有人在,唯有马克思,列宁,毛泽东之流对宗教信仰纯属半桶水却妄加指责.大陆马克思宗教研究其实皆是在中共误导下为之.

CHARLESDARWIN (1809-1882), founder of the Theory of Evolution
1. Charles Darwin ended his mostfundamental scientific work The Origin of Species (1872, 6th edition)with the words:
“There is grandeur in this view oflife, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creatorinto a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling onaccording to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless formsmost beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.” (Darwin1928, 463).
2. “Another source of conviction inthe existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings,impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extremedifficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderfuluniverse, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far intofuturity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting, Ifeel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in somedegree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist.” (Darwin1995, 60).
3. “To my mind itaccords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by theCreator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitantsof the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determiningthe birth and death of the individual.” (Darwin 1928, 462; The Origin ofSpecies).
4. “With respect to the theologicalview of the question; this is always painful to me. I am bewildered. I had nointention to write atheistically.
I cannot anyhow be contented to viewthis wonderful universe and especially the nature of man, and to conclude thateverything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything asresulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left tothe working out of what we may call chance.” (Darwin 1993, 224).
5. In 1879, three years before the endof his life, Darwin wrote that he had “never been an Atheist in the sense ofdenying the existence of a God.” (Darwin, as cited in Bowden 1998, 273).
6. In 1873 Darwin stated: “Theimpossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with ourconscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for theexistence of God.” (Darwin, as cited in Bowden 1998, 273).


Darwin, Charles R. 1928. The Origin of Species by Means of NaturalSelection. With Introduction by W. R. Thompson, [1872], Everyman’sLibrary. London: J. M. Dent & Sons, 6th edition, 1928, reprint.
Darwin, Charles. 1964. The Origin of Species. New York: New AmericanLibrary.
Darwin, Charles R. 1993. The Correspondence of Charles Darwin,[Vol. 8 - 1860]. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. (See also Miles2001).
Darwin, Charles R. 1995. Quoted in The Life of Charles Darwin,[1st Edition - 1902], Francis Darwin – author. London: Senate, 1995,reprint.
 楼主| 发表于 3/1/2011 15:37:54 | 显示全部楼层
    原帖由 人民思想家 于 2009-2-4 21:34 发表
    达尔文承认上帝,是教会逼的,教会问他:又是什么创造了猴子?他回答不出,只好说是上帝,同样牛顿也是这样被逼承认上帝,他原先是不承认的,都是怕教会迫害,才承认的,中世纪的科学家都是这样,科学不像现在发达, ...




You just simply nonsense, and you are too ignorance to understand what is the God and what is the great spirit of religion. of course, I know the dark time of the middle age,although I have no detail knowledge of them yet, I am studying this period of history, I dont trust Chinese scholar under the CCP because their information, majority of them are fake or fault. following modern scientist,physics, chemist, philosophic, who believe the God.there are many of them.

MAXPLANCK – NOBEL LAUREATE IN PHYSICS
Nobel Prize: Max Planck(1858–1947) won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics “for his work on theestablishment and development of the theory of elementary quanta.” Max Planckis universally recognized as the father of modern physics; he formulated one ofthe most important physical theories of the 20th century – Quantum Theory. Healso contributed to the progress of the Theory of Relativity and the study ofelectromagnetic radiation. Planck is a founder of quantum mechanics.
Nationality: German
Education: Ph.D. inphysics, University of Munich, Germany, 1879 (at the age of 21)
Occupation: Professor ofPhysics at the Universities of Munich, Kiel, and Berlin
♦♦♦
1. In his famous lecture Religionand Science (May 1937) Planck wrote: “Both religion and science need fortheir activities the belief in God, and moreover God stands for the former inthe beginning, and for the latter at the end of the whole thinking. For theformer, God represents the basis, for the latter – the crown of any reasoningconcerning the world-view.” (Max Planck, Religion und Naturwissenschaft,Leipzig: Johann Ambrosius Barth Verlag, 1958, 27).
2. “Religion represents a bond ofman to God. It consists in reverent awe before a supernatural Might [Macht], towhich human life is subordinated and which has in its power our welfare andmisery. To remain in permanent contact with this Might and keep it all the timeinclined to oneself, is the unending effort and the highest goal of the believingman. Because
8 onlyin such a way can one feel himself safe before expected and unexpected dangers,which threaten one in his life, and can take part in the highest happiness –inner psychical peace – which can be attained only by means of strong bond toGod and unconditional trust to His omnipotence and willingness to help.” (MaxPlanck 1958, 9).
3. Planck concludedhis lecture Religion and Science (May 1937) with the words: “It is thesteady, ongoing, never-slackening fight against scepticism and dogmatism,against unbelief and superstition, which religion and science wage together.The directing watchword in this struggle runs from the remotest past to thedistant future: ‘On to God!’ ” (Planck, as cited in Heilbron 1986, 185; seealso Planck 1958, 30).
4. “Under theseconditions it is no wonder, that the movement of atheists, which declaresreligion to be just a deliberate illusion, invented by power-seeking priests,and which has for the pious belief in a higher Power nothing but words ofmockery, eagerly makes use of progressive scientific knowledge and in apresumed unity with it, expands in an ever faster pace its disintegratingaction on all nations of the earth and on all social levels. I do not need toexplain in any more detail that after its victory not only all the mostprecious treasures of our culture would vanish, but – which is even worse –also any prospects at a better future.” (Planck 1958, 7).
5. “But the value ofreligion exceeds the individual. Not only every man has his own religion butthe religion requires its validity for larger community, for nation, race, andthe whole mankind. Since God reigns equally over all countries of the world,the whole world with all its treasures and horrors is subdued to Him.” (Planck1958, 9).
6. Unfortunately,during World War II, in February 1945, Planck’s son Erwin was executed by theNazis for participation in an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler.On 14 March 1945 Planck wrote in a letter to his friend Anton Kippenberg:
“If there isconsolation anywhere it is in the Eternal, and I consider it a grace of Heaventhat belief in the Eternal has been rooted deeply in me since childhood.
God protect andstrengthen you for everything that still may come before this insanity in whichwe are forced to live reaches its end.” (Planck, as cited in Heilbron 1986,195-196).
7. “That God existedbefore there were human beings on Earth, that He holds the entire world,believers and non-believers, in His omnipotent hand for eternity, and that Hewill remain enthroned on a level inaccessible to human comprehension long afterthe Earth and everything that is on it has gone to ruins; those who professthis faith and who, inspired by it, in veneration and complete confidence, feelsecure from the dangers of life under protection of the Almighty, only thosemay number themselves among the truly religious.” (Planck, as cited in Staguhn1992, 152).
8. In his major book WhereIs Science Going? (1932) Planck pointed out:
“There can never beany real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complementof the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that thereligious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all thepowers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony.And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages weredeeply religious souls.” (Planck 1977, 168).
9. “As a physicist,that is, a man who had devoted his whole life to a wholly prosaic science, theexploration of matter, no one would surely suspect me of being a fantast. Andso, having studied the atom, I am telling you that there is no matter as such!All matter arises and persists only due to a force that causes the atomicparticles to vibrate, holding them together in the tiniest of solar systems,the atom.
Yet in the whole ofthe universe there is no force that is either intelligent or eternal, and wemust therefore assume that behind this force there is a conscious, intelligentMind or Spirit. This is the very origin of all matter.” (Planck, as cited inEggenstein 1984, Part I; see “Materialistic Science on the Wrong Track”).
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10. To the questionof The Observer, “Do you think that consciousness can be explained interms of matter?” Max Planck replied:
“No, I regardconsciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness.We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everythingthat we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” (Planck, as cited in dePurucker 1940, ch. 13).
11. Planck believedin life after death, he believed in the existence of “another world, exaltedabove ours, where we can and will take refuge at any time.” (Planck, as citedin Heilbron 1986, 197).
“Farsightedtheologians are now working to mine the eternal metal from the teachings ofJesus and to forge it for all time.” (Planck, as cited in Heilbron 1986, 67).
12. Writing on thecomplementary relations between science and religion, Max Planck observed: “Theone does not exclude the other; rather they are complementary and mutuallyinteracting. Man needs science as a tool of perception; he needs religion as aguide to action.” (Planck, as cited in Schaefer 1983, 84).
 楼主| 发表于 3/1/2011 15:39:05 | 显示全部楼层
    原帖由 人民思想家 于 2009-2-4 21:40 发表
    再说关于马克思著作,我是看的西方哲学家的译本——瑞典哲学家翻译的;不是中共的流行本;你搞清楚;什么律师?我看你见了鬼!对法律的根本都不懂,还老提共党的条文,跟它斗也不知韬略和正义二字;潜心研读我的文章 ...



你是个充满自相茅盾的人,你的文章有两种绝然不同的风格,一类较不错论点也基本正确,另一类则大错特错,诸如鼓吹暴力推翻中共政府,煽动大杀特杀之类的,严重损坏中国民主运动整体声誉,实有离间民运与国人的手段之嫌。中国民运与中共之争,除了在政治思想哲学经济政体方面外,正是无神论与有神论之争。中共无神论是毒害中国人思想精神和心灵的罪魁祸首,因此,我基本赞同和支持陈尔晋先生的神学研究。东海君是个在国学方面有相当造诣的才子,也是个高产作家,然而他的无神论思想观点与立场严重阻碍了他的进一步升华提高,以至实有狂妄自负之嫌。我作此文旨在帮助东海兄彻底认清中共无神论的巨大危害。东海兄实质上已在悄然转变。南郭以为“一知半解者不信神,学者能达到信神的境界,而真正的大学者才能认清什么是神”。这里列举的众多大科学家,思想家,哲学家,文学家均相信上帝信神决非偶然。

ERWIN SCHROEDINGER – NOBEL LAUREATE IN PHYSICS
Nobel Prize: ErwinSchroedinger (1887–1961) was granted the 1933 Nobel Prize in Physics “for thediscovery of new productive forms of atomic theory.” Schroedinger alsocontributed to the wave theory of matter and to other fundamentals of quantummechanics. He is the founder of wave mechanics.
Nationality: Austrian
Education: Ph.D.in physics, University of Vienna, Austria, 1910
Occupation: Professorof Physics at the Universities of Stuttgart, Jena, Berlin, Zurich, Oxford, andVienna
♦♦♦
1. Schroedingerclaims that science is a creative game with rules, which are designed by Godhimself:
“Science is a game –but a game with reality, a game with sharpened knives.
If a man cuts apicture carefully into 1000 pieces, you solve the puzzle when you reassemblethe pieces into a picture; in the success or failure, both your intelligencescompete.
In the presentationof a scientific problem, the other player is the good Lord. He has not only setthe problem but also has devised the rules of the game – but they are notcompletely known, half of them are left for you to discover or to deduce.
The uncertainty ishow many of the rules God himself has permanently ordained, and how manyapparently are caused by your own mental inertia, while the solution generallybecomes possible only through freedom from its limitations. This is perhaps themost exciting thing in the game.” (Schroedinger, as cited in Moore 1990, 348).
2. “I am veryastonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is verydeficient. It gives a lot of factual information, puts all our experience in amagnificently
10
consistentorder, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to ourheart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue,bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing ofbeautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity.
Science sometimes pretends toanswer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly thatwe are not inclined to take them seriously.” (Schroedinger 1954, 93).
3. Schroedinger emphaticallydenies the claim of some theists that the essence of science is atheistic:
“I shall quite briefly mentionhere the notorious atheism of science. The theists reproach it for this againand again. Unjustly. A personal God can not be encountered in a world picturethat becomes accessible only at the price that everything personal is excludedfrom it.
We know that whenever God isexperienced, it is an experience exactly as real as a direct sense impression,as real as one’s own personality. As such He must be missing from thespace-time picture. ‘I do not meet with God in space and time’, so says thehonest scientific thinker, and for that reason he is reproached by those inwhose catechism it is nevertheless stated: ‘God is Spirit’.” (Schroedinger, ascited in Moore 1990, 379; see also Schroedinger’s Mind and Matter,Cambridge University Press, 1958, p. 68).
4. Schroedinger maintains thatthe human technical inventions have caused a deterioration in Nature:
“The grave error in a technicallydirected cultural drive is that it sees its highest goal in the possibility ofachieving an alteration of Nature. It hopes to set itself in the place of God,so that it may force upon the divine will some petty conventions of itsdust-born mind.” (Schroedinger, as cited in Moore 1990, 349).
5. In his book Nature and theGreeks Schroedinger states:
“Whence came I, whither go I?
Science cannot tell us a wordabout why music delights us, of why and how an old song can move us to tears.
Science is reticent too when itis a question of the great Unity – the One of Parmenides – of which we allsomehow form part, to which we belong. The most popular name for it in our timeis God – with a capital ‘G’.
Whence come I and whither go I?That is the great unfathomable question, the same for every one of us. Sciencehas no answer to it.” (Schroedinger 1954, 95-96).
6. Walter Moore (ProfessorEmeritus of Physical Chemistry at the University of Sydney, Australia) writesthat Schroedinger’s best loved quotation from the Vedas is this:
“Who sees the Lord dwelling alikein all beings
Perishing not as they perish
He sees indeed. For, when he seesthe Lord
Dwelling in everything, he harmsnot self by self.
This is the highest way.”
(Walter Moore, Schroedingerife and Thought, Cambridge University Press, 1990, 349).
Regarding this verse Schroedingersays: “These beautiful words need no commentary. Here mercy and goodnesstowards all living things (not merely fellow human beings) are glorified as thehighest attainable goal – almost in the sense of Albert Schweitzer’s reverencefor life.” (Schroedinger, as cited in Moore 1990, 349 and 477).
7. Schroedinger deniesMaterialism (i.e. the theory that matter is the only reality). Schroedingeraffirms that human consciousness is absolutely different from the materialbodily processes: “Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. Forconsciousness is
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absolutelyfundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else.”(Schroedinger 1984, 334).
8. “Now I shall not keep free ofmetaphysics, nor even of mysticism; they play a role in all that follows.
We living beings all belong toone another, we are all actually members or aspects of a single Being, which wemay in western terminology call God, while in the Upanishads it is calledBrahman.” (Schroedinger, as cited in Moore 1990, 477).
In his book Mind and Matter Schroedingerwrites: “One thing can be claimed in favour of the mystical teaching of the‘identity’ of all minds with each other and with the Supreme Mind – as againstthe fearful monadology of Leibniz. The doctrine of identity can claim that itis clinched by the empirical fact that consciousness is never experienced inthe plural, only in the singular. Not only has none of us experienced more thanone consciousness, but there is also no trace of circumstantial evidence ofthis ever happening anywhere in the world. If I say that there cannot be morethan one consciousness in the same mind, this seems to be blunt tautology – weare quite unable to imagine the contrary.” (Schroedinger 1958).
9. The science writer Ken Wilberstates: “My book Quantum Questions centered on the remarkable fact thatvirtually every one of the great pioneers of modern physics - men likeEinstein, Schroedinger and Heisenberg - were spiritual mystics of onesort or another, an altogether extraordinary situation. The hardest of thesciences, physics, had run smack into the tenderest of religions, mysticism.Why? And what exactly was mysticism, anyway?
So I collected the writings ofEinstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Louis de Broglie, Max Planck, Niels Bohr,Wolfgang Pauli, Sir Arthur Eddington, and Sir James Jeans. The scientific geniusof these men is beyond dispute (all but two were Nobel laureates); what is soamazing, as I said, is that they all shared a profoundly spiritual or mysticalworldview, which is perhaps the last thing one would expect from pioneeringscientists.” (Wilber 1998, 16).
See Schroedinger’s books:
- My View of the World. CambridgeUniversity Press, 1964.
- Mind and Matter.Cambridge University Press, 1958.
- What Is Life? New Yorkoubleday, 1956.
 楼主| 发表于 3/1/2011 15:41:26 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 人民思想家 于 2009-2-4 16:22 发表
    老在恶搞老马,是何意?剩余价值是谁发现的?资本主义,社会主义……是谁发明的词汇?
    宗教连尼采和康德都批判了,你还翻什么案,伟人政治家信宗教那是做戏!你懂不懂,我若是总统我也会赞美宗教,因为人民需要安慰 ...



资本主义和社会主义皆不是马克思的发明,而“剩余价值”也非绝对真理,老马否定资本家的管理的高级劳动价值,否定资本本身的价值,将低级劳动与高级劳动混为一谈,将风险与利润绝对分割,将周密规划,市场研究,投资风险排除在创造价值体系之外,唯认劳动创造价值,其实商品价值与产品价值概念不同,前者不一定包含劳动因素,后者不一定创造交换价值。黄金尽管有很高的价值,但历史遗物,尽管可能是泥石腐木,确可能远超出黄金的价值,绘画雕塑在不同时期有相差百千倍甚至万倍的不同价值,其包含的劳动量则是恒定不变定的,因此,老马发现的剩余价值说并非绝对真理。

至于尼采或康德批判过的宗教,不等于宗教就已经获死刑。任何人均有权质疑批判宗教教义,事实上不同的宗教,其教义相异甚至相冲突都是正常的。然而宗教信仰与人类相伴相生直到永远,除非人类本身消亡,否则宗教信仰永远存在。反对者固然有之,赞同者更不乏其人。康德本人也是相信上帝的。只不过他的上帝观与一般宗教的上帝观有所不同而已。事实上自然科学家们的上帝观确实与神学家们的上帝观有所不同。否定上帝存在的除了狂妄自大的马列毛外,主要是那些尼采式的狂人。
 楼主| 发表于 3/1/2011 15:41:36 | 显示全部楼层
    原帖由 人民思想家 于 2009-2-5 19:20 发表
    请不要谈论上世纪初的威尔逊,那时康德与尼采都没多大,还没有成为不朽的思想家;东扯西拉,很不耐烦……



尼采死于梅毒终于精神病院,列宁据说也死于梅毒,尼采和列宁都是疯狂诋毁上帝的人。
 楼主| 发表于 3/22/2015 03:33:11 | 显示全部楼层
this is my older essays which might be the first Chinese version about Karl Marx's religious remark, at least in correct translation of Marx's original words, however, it is rejected by so called democratic magazine, thus I post it online for free.
 楼主| 发表于 3/22/2015 12:04:57 | 显示全部楼层
马克思对什么是宗教从未说清楚。其最著名的宗教名言乃是:“宗教的苦难表达的是尘世生活中的苦难,同时,也是抗议现实的苦难。恰如在缺乏灵性的状态中的精神一样,宗教对受压迫的可怜的人们而言是一种显灵和奇迹,是冷酷无情世界中的感情,是人民的鸦片.要求放弃对现实处境的幻想,就是放弃需要幻想的处境本身。”


This is translated by Thomas G.Guo, which might be one of the most correct trans of Karl Marx on religion.
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